While replying to one of Denis’ comments in Discipleship – The Big Issues, I stumbled upon the possibly of modifying AA’s 12 step method as a discipleship model.
The 12 steps have concrete and successive goals, flexibility on when/how you achieve the goals, and a usability that transcends cultural context – just about everything we would want in a discipleship model.
Please survey my 12 step modification titled Maturity Mile Markers, before entertaining the questions below. It’s a first draft and work in progress, but with your input I believe we can turn this into a powerful tool/ model. Here are some questions I’d like your help with before considering it done:
- Is MMM usable for spiritual seekers who have not yet committed to Jesus? I think we need a discipleship model with room for people to explore Jesus before they commit to him. In other words, allow our outreach and discipleship to flow together in one plan. Would it help the outreach objective to reinstate AA’s “Higher Power” terminology in early steps?
- Is MMM usable for children/families? Are discipleship models for adults vs. children/families destined to be two different things?
- Is MMM structured well to foster togetherness, or is bent on individual interaction and individual growth? Individuality is my chief complaint with AA, and I’m not sure I successfully compensated for their shortcomings.
- Should any mile markers be added/changed/deleted? Do the mile markers flow together well? I’m concerned that mile marker 11 with people in particular is awkwardly placed and/or insufficiently represented. World Relief, Social Justice, Environmental Conservation, Politics and every other facet of world order Jesus seeks to redeem, seems rather awkward to lop into a single and final mile marker.
- Are there legal issues to worry about in modifying AA’s 12 steps? Two-three of their steps are included in MMM essentially verbatim, and another four are suspiciously similar.
- I anticipate the need for online/printed materials to elaborate upon each mile marker and supply additional guidance/resources – just FYI. These would be helps & references, not another obligation to the model.
If you are just joining the discipleship discussion now, click here for all posts and comments that have led up to this point.
28 responses so far ↓
Chris Aldrich // May 21, 2008 at 10:58 am |
Reading through the MMM’s quickly, I’m not sure it makes much sense to use “we” for the markers rather than “I”. I need more time to comment on your questions.
Jennifer // May 21, 2008 at 1:37 pm |
Sheesh! I’ve been missing out on a great discussion. I’ll be back later with more comments.
Melissa Hofmeister // May 21, 2008 at 2:45 pm |
I don’t think that we should change it to “higher power”. I think people can learn about Jesus by hearing others’ stories and practicing loving relationships with people. Non-believers will be at step one until they make that commitment and should be supported to do so as they “count the cost”.
414discipled // May 21, 2008 at 3:24 pm |
I don’t think my comments have been going through lately … (you should take off the function that only allows “wordpressers” to comment–I can’t keep up with all these accounts, bro. … and you’d likely get more comments!).
Here I go again (sorry if you get a repeat):
4. For the “Life-Change w/ Jesus” you will need some training/good explanation to go with 5-9, and are people ready for 9 at that point (if ever)? And for “Life-Change with People” I think 11 is great, but we won’t see that … that’s Heaven; striving for it is cool though.
5. You bet there are, unless it’s public domain; better start a dialogue now … and get a lawyer maybe.
6. This is complex but simple, so I like it in general. On-line resources will be a needed aspect. I think the model is too difficult w/o additional materials and at least a brief training program (podcast ‘em, bro.) for leaders.
Nice start!
Amy // May 22, 2008 at 7:16 am |
I have a few thoughts and questions. First, I’ve always been a big supporter of a weekly group. I think it helps accountability to be in touch with people more than 2 times a month. As a former leader, whatever model we go with, I’d love to see a demonstration. After you’ve rounded your leaders together, do a sample group meeting for us to see. It helps for us visual learners.
I’m reading through the steps and am wondering, is this the kind of model where we check off #4 and now you’re onto 5, then 6 kind of thing? Or does this model have the ebb and flow of life with it so that one could say “this week, it seems I’m concentrating on MM4″ but then next week it might be MM7? Does the order have to be numeric or is there room to skip around as different things come into our lives? We might have to “make a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves” on a regular basis, depending on what we’re dealing with in our lives.
I think this model makes it easy to see your progress and to judge where you are on the scale in your growth. And I didn’t get the feel it was legalistic in the sense of following some kind of rule for the sake of the rule itself.
Amy // May 22, 2008 at 7:23 am |
In answer to a few of your questions, I agree with Melissa on the higher power point. I think you have searching stages in the MM for people who have not yet committed. I’m really not sure about MM11 either- can we really do this until Christ returns and rules on earth? We might need to change the wording so that it’s something we can acheive and make it more measurable. I think having additional resource materials would be a great idea! It does feel individualistic to me. I’m not sure how we could change it to make it foster togetherness more. I’ll have to think on that and the children part…
Jennifer // May 22, 2008 at 3:51 pm |
For a little more on this topic, go to my friend Joe’s blog: http://www.rebelpilgrim.blogspot.com. Scroll down a few posts. I like the idea of the 12 step as you could easily replace “addiction” with “worship”. We’re all addicted to/worshipping something. New thread: Something that’s always been helpful to me is picturing some negatives on the scale. In other words, some people aren’t starting out their journey at step one, they’re starting at a negative 3. New thread: As I was reading the various models they brought to mind various groups I’ve been part of in the past. They were all different, yet all a crucial part of my journey. I thought about the leaders of the groups I was part of and realized that the style of the group often reflected the style/strengths of the leader. That seemed to be part of the success of the group. New thread: When it comes to discipleship, the questions I have have less to do with the structure of the group, and more to do with discipling those who haven’t been introduced to Christ yet. When does discipleship begin? Can I disciple my friends without them knowing? I long for a “coach” when I lead groups, reminders about appropriate boundaries for group life. Another thing I was reminded of when reading the models was that the relationships that were formed during the times of our group meetings are ones that I still draw on today – 5-10 years later.
Andy // May 23, 2008 at 8:34 am |
For some reason my comments aren’t getting through it seems …
Anyway, I like this model in general. It is simple in its complexity. In response to #4: I think it is possible to strive for #11, but we won’t see that this side of Heaven, so re-wording may be needed. And in response to #5: yes; if you have some lawyers in your congregation, hit ‘em up. And for #6: I think you will definitely need supplementary materials; I think a lot of training will be needed at the outset, to make certain that the initial leaders know what to do/how to train … and providing as many resources as you can will only prove positive in the long run, and I think all the “mile markers” will need extended explanation. Good work! Keep us posted …
Ericka Howard // May 23, 2008 at 8:51 am |
I have so many thoughts, I’m not sure where to start.
Jennifer asked when discipleship starts. At least for me, people were intentionally discipling me before I was saved (14 years ago). They loved me right where I was (a mess…), in a way I had never known love before. Christ-in-them overflowed out of them, and flowed into, over, and through my life. I didn’t recognize or understand exactly what was really happening until years later. I was unaware of being discipled, but it did lead me to Christ.
Would this model (MMM) have the flexibility to reflect the individual style/strengths of each group leader?
MM11 on LifeChangeWithJesus–if these steps are progressive–seems rather late to me to start developing the disciplines. But perhaps Amy is right that we could skip around? As Chris Martin commented on “Discipleship – The Big Issues,” discipline (prayer, fasting, memorizing scripture, etc.) and the inner life are at the forefront of a life that overflows with Jesus’ love. So if we “wait” to “introduce” the disciplines, are we downplaying the whole point of being a disciple, and the true path to discipleship?
I tend to be a checklist kind of thinker, so am concerned that perhaps this “list” could become a checklist of sorts for those of us who lean that direction. If that happened, then I might start to believe I was “not as pleasing to God” if I didn’t progress thru the steps the way I “think” I should, thus getting more into a legalistic, works-based mentality. I am wondering how we could overcome this….
I have more on my mind, but no more time. I’ll have to come back later. Again, I am humbled and grateful to be part of such an awesome discussion among the living body of our Risen Lord.
rjulke // May 23, 2008 at 1:12 pm |
Let me start off my comments by first offering a disclaimer that I HATE accountability
and goals. While I know that both are good for me, I never put myself in a situation
where I’m answerable to anyone for my actions if I can help it! I’m going to comment on
the above model in what I hope is a logical manner and not one born out of emotion and
my own predisposition to pride. So here goes…
I have read over the MMM model several times. The first time I balked at the entire
model and thought that there wasn’t much merit in trying to modify a self-help program
for discipleship. Since then, I’ve re-read it and think that some of what is there is quite
useful.
Here are my thoughts as they relate to your questions:
#1—I actually think that MM1-3 in the Life-Change with Jesus guide are Coming-to-
Christ steps. If so, these steps seem to be there for Spiritual Seekers. The question is, how
do we get them to the group if they aren’t at a place where they’re ready to commit to the
final objective (especially when you mandate that a commitment statement be read each
week)? In the case of AA, there is usually a crisis that has led them to be there (whether
because of their desire, or court mandated.) Perhaps MM1-3 actually takes place outside
of any identified group—maybe it’s in MM9 of the People guide where this is happening.
I concur with the other bloggers that we should NOT change the wording to “higher
power.”
#2—I’m not certain that this model is usable for children’s and families together. A child
is naturally in a relationship with their parent that demands obedience. The parent is
usually the one to set the standards of behavior and maturity for their child. In this
discipleship model (as with most) the onus is always on the individual for their diagnosis
and rate of “recovery.” Also, with a 12-step model there are huge confidentiality
demands in place. Is confidentiality really possible when dealing with the well-being of
children? Perhaps the MMM plan needs to incorporate the ideas of TRUST, and
CONFIDENTIALITY into the mission statement.
#3—When I read the recommended format in your mock-up brochure, it spurred many
thoughts about structure. Your question asks about individuality vs. community and I
think that you’re right—that even in the large/small group structure, that you’re not
fostering togetherness as much as you could be. I’ll address my comments about format
in another entry.
#4—I don’t have any problems with MM1-12 of the Jesus guide. I particularly like
MM6&7 since they offer the best place to view and measure growth. They also offer the
best place to make an impact outside of ourselves. My only 2 questions would be: How
do we evaluate achievement of the goals? A spiritually immature person might think they
are breezing through the steps when they’re actually not making as much progress as they
think. And secondly, discipleship is a never-ending process (just as “once an alcoholic,
always an alcoholic”) so where do we cycle people back through the steps, or push them
to continued growth after MM12 is achieved? Then, in regard to the People guide, I think
your comment on MM11 being ‘awkward’ is valid. I would only offer that this be broken
down into a smaller goal. It’s too big! Plus, can we ever really change the order of the
world back to what God intended? Maybe the language on MM11 can change to
“Intentional and ongoing involvement in changing the social and environmental orders of
the world back to the creators ideal.”
#5–yes, there could be legal ramifications, thus the need for language changes.
Outside of your 5 questions I also have several comments. In your commitment
statement, you mention individualized timeframe and unique accomplishment of goals,
but you don’t leave enough latitude for what I think is a human’s proclivity to bounce
around in their walk with the Lord. The linear accomplishment of MM’s is too restrictive
for me.
Secondly, Discussion Question #4 makes me balk. Again, this is probably because of my
own nature, but is this question about accountability or is it just setting a person up for
failure?
Also, I agree with Erika about the “checklist” being a stumbling block for some.
Thanks to anyone who actually took the time to read my long diatribe! I have truly
enjoyed thinking about this subject and hearing what others are saying!
rjulke // May 23, 2008 at 1:12 pm |
Format Comments
The word RECOMMENDED in the title should give us enough leeway to make changes as necessary, but I just thought I would comment on the suggestions as written.
1. The weekly mtgs for no less than 90 minutes is a bit too stern for me. While a nice guideline, I don’t think this time frame should be mandatory for groups that are small and may not require a breakout group. For instance, if a group only consists of 4 people your entire time would be spent together and you might not need 90 minutes to cover everyone’s stories.
2. The meal/snack is a great suggestion, but again, I wouldn’t make this a mandate.
4. In the large/small group format, I’m leaning towards flip-flopping the material that is covered in which time slot. I am bent towards doing Bible study and other course work in the large group and relational part in small groups. Perhaps there can be a designated “quarterly meeting” where a celebration of MMM happens for the whole group.
6. Ughh. This needs a serious re-write in my opinion. While patterned off of AA, I think this can be done away with for the most part. The only thing that people should need to have ready access to is a bible. And while helpful to have one in your back pocket, I don’t know if this is how organic relationships happen. This also makes me wonder again if there is a place for spiritual seekers in this environment. I do agree that they should be ready to discuss their progress, but with whom? Again, this makes me ask about accountability and confidentiality.
brian hofmeister // May 23, 2008 at 2:49 pm |
Checklist Spirituality…
I hear what many of you are saying regarding the pitfalls of having a checklist spirituality.
My question is: Does the MMM model create its own pressure for you to change, or does it highlight the pressure Jesus has already placed on you? For far too long Western Christianity has gotten away with expressing faith by what we believe; yet there are piles of things Jesus intends for us to do. Whether we like it or not, Jesus demands that we change and that we are instrumental in the change of others.
Staring down the ominous call of Jesus will often cause crisis along the way. You could turn the crisis into legalism/behaviorism and ruin everything it means to follow Jesus, or you could turn it into faith/prayer and find deliverance in places you never thought possible.
Regarding the “check it off my list and forget about it” mentality that could arise, MM #12 with Jesus and MM #10 with people is intended to communicate that maturity is about maintaining/revisiting the maturity mile markers, not completing them and walking away.
Either way, the call of Jesus is not the problem; it’s what we do with it. If MMM is not the answer or the format has flaws, I still want to see a discipleship model that lays out the calling of Jesus upon our lives as boldly and thoroughly as he has given us in Scripture.
David Andes // May 23, 2008 at 2:50 pm |
Brian, thanks for the blog. Don’t spend much time in blogs, but God has been putting discipleship on out minds at Focused Living and at Crossroads. Three resources that have been helpful / influentional for me have been:
1) Master Plan of Evangelism. I have been helped recently to reread this little book by Robert Coleman. It is really about disciplemaking and in my view keeps things simple. Many have written on “how Jesus did it.” 2) I have also been helped by the Worldwide Discipleship Association’s RCAPS philospohy devised by Bob Dukes. R= relationships; Content = scripture; A=accountability; P=prayer; S= situattons. It’s hard to describe in an email,but the discipler thinks about what should characterize the relationship, content, accountability, prayer, and situations at each phase of the person being discipled.
3) Son Life material on the Description of a Discipled Person
From my experience, it seems like discipleship is something that is very customized. And yet, the goal that I think you are after is multiplication. so, providing some basic train track s to run on for the discipler is good so they have a direction. Then, when they get up to the line of scrimmage (not to mix my metaphors) thye call an audible. Fro instance, like others on this blog have said, a young nursing mom probably isn’t going to be reading 30 chapters of scriptures or a person going through suffering needs to hear some truth “now” and not next year when the curriculum gets to it.
We are in our 18 season of SALT with Focused Living and we are still trying to figure it out! Anyway, it’s been cool reading your thoughts and the responses from others.
brian hofmeister // May 25, 2008 at 1:03 pm |
Everyone is doing an excellent job hear offering critical feedback and constructive suggestions! There are some flexibility issues to comment on…
Ericka asked, “Would this model (MMM) have the flexibility to reflect the individual style/strengths of each group leader?” Like Dave has just said, I’d like to give leaders the flexibility to call an audible at the line of scrimmage, but they have to know the game they are playing. MMM is an attempt at defining the game.
Teachers will teach people toward the next MM, counselors will counsel, prophets will speak directly to the situation – MMM defines the goals, the leaders of the groups, as well as individual participants, have to define for themselves how they will get there.
Linear vs. Jumping Around… I have to admit I’m a linear type of thinker. In most cases I designed the next mile marker to build upon the last. I don’t see serious detriment to skipping around, unless of course someone misuses the flexibility to perpetually avoid the mile marker they need most. As with the last aspect, I’d leave the audible in the hands of leaders/participants, yet proscribe linear progression until the audible is needed.
Chris Alford // May 26, 2008 at 7:38 pm |
Brian,
My comments may not make a lot of sense as I’m trying to get my head around the whole discussion. But I’ll take a wack at it and come back later for more.
As you know I tend to be the opposite of a linear thinker…I’m extremely relational.
For the last few years I’ve attempted to get my head around the different models. Each model has wonderful highlights, but also contains extreme weaknesses.
My personal conclusion at this point is that there really isn’t a model that will work in and of itself.
The best thing I’ve discovered is from Michael Frost. His church (community) is http://www.smallboatbigsea.com. The have a simple structure called DNA. (Discipleship, Nuture, and Accountability) However, it isn’t built around steps it’s a bit more relational and is built around what they call a weekly rhythm. You should check it out.
It really comes down to a few leaders understanding that they have a responsibility to disciple people and just spend time with them…life on life.
In a sense, I think the Jesus carbon copy is the answer, but without the 12-3-1 structure. Just leaders living life in a close of proximity that our culture will allow. Christ lives within us and therefore if we are willing he can do through us what he himself did. Actually, he said you will do greater things…I think…lol.
Just a few thoughts that jump out to me.
BTW, Rick Warren basically copied (or one of his guys) AA with Celebrate Recovery.
Chris
Glenn Livingston // May 27, 2008 at 1:36 pm |
Discipleship is encouraging & stimulating relationship with God.
I see the goal not as multipaction – that is a task, but spirituality which is relational with both God & others
The means is by leading them ever deeper into the Gospel. The Gospel is so simple that a child can understand it in an elementary way & be saved, yet it is so deep & profound as to always be a joy of exploring.
And YES there is great flexibility which is but following the leading of the Holy Spirit of God.
Sue Hennessy // May 27, 2008 at 4:49 pm |
I tend to like guidelines when I am facilitating a group. After 25 years I am still using a lesson plan book for teaching my 2nd graders. I especially love #7 under the With Jesus column for this reason. We only get better at something when we practice the action several times. We may not necessarily believe in the action, and it might feel funny, but after doing it several times it becomes second nature. After all, it takes 21 days to make a habit, good or bad. In this area shouldn’t small groups be discussing behaviors that should be practiced in order to form that Christ-like habit? Maybe we should put more emphasis on observable behaviors since many times this is what others see, what they admire, what they wish they could be like, and what they eventually follow. So how do we measure behavior? This brings me around to assessment. Again being a teacher, the “A” word scares me since it has been so abused in our schools due to No Child Left Behind. Assessment can kill the teachings or the love of learning. To me I learned to love Jesus by watching people who choose to live a Jesus centered life, discussing scripture, and honoring the spirit that filled me. How can one possibly measure that? However, we can measure behavior (did I show compassion today by speaking kindly to my children or spouse or coworker). Perhaps a checkmark system or graph could work for this BUT how much fun would that be??? I also agree with you Brian on the individuality of AA and we would need to work on individuality within the group setting. I do not want to use the words “Higher Power” and I personally loved # 11 in the With People column. God intended us to love and respect His earth, His precious creation. We need to practice thinking and acting with an attitude that this is a gift from God, one that was not meant to bedestroyed but to replenish.
mike // May 29, 2008 at 8:55 am |
I tried to read through all the different ideas presented and realize I don’t have the energy or head knowledge to figure out a plan for discipleship. All I know is the more I am aware of God presence in my life it naturally and some times supernaturally flows out to others. This is how I touch others and it seems to work for me. I will leave the planning to others.
hentrich // June 2, 2008 at 11:12 pm |
Allot of big words…
I agree with the simpler and more memorable = better. For that I like the goal one a little better.
My first thought was we should just ask the 3 relationships as weekly questions: how ya doing with Jesus, how ya doing with church family, and what are you doing to change the world?
Although I get those could be both vague and overwhelming, my teens would answer – “fine” “good” or “what???”. Others would answer, “I’m just trying my hardest….” or “I don’t man, I’m just to figure this out.” So that’s where your mile makers come in pretty handy. I wonder if we could make the mile markers a series of things to check progress without seeming linear. (Which I’m sure doesn’t make since). I would like someone to be able to ask me how I am doing with Jesus and both of us have the same idea of the goals. Something kind of like the fruit of the spirit, so – Jon, how ya doing with Jesus? Ok I guess… Well how self controlled have you been, how joyful, how hopeful, how loving?
All in all you’re the man, keep it going. I think this is so important!!!! It seems every big movement of Jesus has had a simple, repeatable discipleship plan to go along with it.
Much love
John C. // June 3, 2008 at 9:36 am |
Brian:
I’m with Jon on this one: simple is better. (I also agree with Jon that you are the man for taking this on!!) All of these proposals and posts have the look, feel and smell of OVERTHINKING the whole thing. And as we all know, overanalysis causes paralysis!!
Using Model #2 as a focus for my thoughts, I just fear that all these written procedures and guidelines are too overwhelming for us “common folk.” And, for better or worse, we live in a Western society that places a lot of demands on our time. As such, I think an endeavor such as this is doomed to fail for the simple reason that you will have a difficult time getting people to commit 90 minutes a week to it — and then hope to “give them reason to stay for hours after the closing.”
That may come across as sounding like a cop out and may be infuriating to hear if you are a pastor trying desperately to lead his/her flock, but I truly think that is the reality with which you are confronted. Which is why, again, I would suggest taking baby steps. Keep it simple, as Jon suggests, and build on it as you go, over time. Let the process evolve naturally; don’t try to force too much too soon.
Brian, I strongly agree with your observation that “for far too long Western Christianity has gotten away with expressing faith by what we believe; yet there are piles of things Jesus intends for us to do. Whether we like it or not, Jesus demands that we change and that we are instrumental in the change of others. …Staring down the ominous call of Jesus will often cause crisis along the way. You could turn the crisis into legalism/behaviorism and ruin everything it means to follow Jesus, or you could turn it into faith/prayer and find deliverance in places you never thought possible.”
YES!! Is that not how Jesus approached discipleship? He urged people to turn away from all the unnecessary rules and laws of the church because they were “ruining everything” by taking the focus away from God and his simple demand to love one another.
While guidelines for spirtitual growth are good and highly recommended, I think you do more harm than good when you try to impose an overly structured checklist mentality to that growth — and then try to measure progress on some still undetermined scale. The word “flexibility” keeps cropping up in these posts, but to be honest I’m not sure I see it in the MMM model.
The other thing that intimidates me about MMM is the need for strong, committed group leaders to get it off the ground. Do we have enough people in our church equipped to tackle this? I know we’d like to think we do, but until you sit down and actually get true buy-in from people, I don’t think you should assume. Some of our most dynamic group leaders, for example, may not be fully committed to the cause — and again, if that’s the case, the chances of success diminish.
I agree wholeheartedly that our church needs a discipleship model that can be used as a GUIDELINE for spiritual growth, outreach and service. And I agree that it should be ground in Scripture. I would just urge scaling back what we see here.
I agree with Sue: Use small groups to discuss “behaviors that should be practiced in order to form that Christ-like habit?” Maybe this means that the small groups have more structured studies instead of letting everyone do their own thing. Themed studies, if you will, that all groups are expected to tackle. The flexibility might come in how they tackle it or how long they take to complete the theme (within reason of course). With this approach, I think we will achieve the natural evolution I discussed earlier because we will all be working from the same book, per se, and ideas and commitment will be a natural outgrowth of these studies — which of course should be tied into the Sunday worship thems.
I think this approach will create, as Sue suggested, “observable behaviors since many times this is what others see, what they admire, what they wish they could be like, and what they eventually follow.”
See? Simple!
More from Sue: “To me I learned to love Jesus by watching people who choose to live a Jesus centered life, discussing scripture, and honoring the spirit that filled me. How can one possibly measure that? However, we can measure behavior (did I show compassion today by speaking kindly to my children or spouse or coworker).”
Again: SIMPLE! Like Chris H. suggested, let’s just model Jesus! There is no indication in Scripture that he carried around any handouts, checklists or other forms of enticement. He simply spoke from the heart.
He kept it simple.
brian hofmeister // June 3, 2008 at 12:19 pm |
I’m hearing that proposal #1 is too flexible and proposal #2 is too specific. Although finding the middle ground seemed like the solution at first glance, I’m hearing from many of you that we ought just go with the flow – focus on Jesus, the book Acts, or the command to love, and just let the rest happen naturally.
I’m torn as to what to do. Jesus certainly did his thing in the natural flow of life, but he also did it while living with the disciples 24/7. If we made church a 24/7 thing, natural would certainly work. The fact, however, that most of us want to cram discipleship into a 1hr. meeting, every other week, leads me to believe that we have to turn the heat up on specific, goal oriented intentionality to get there.
I like “natural,” but show me we raise the bar on disciples of Jesus while staying “natural.”
Chris Aldrich // June 4, 2008 at 8:19 am |
I still like the simplicity of Neil Cole’s LTG’s. We could come up with our own “character” questions if we don’t want to use his, but I feel like confession (or a discussion on how we are doing in our walk with JC) is a large part of what discipleship is all about. The mile markers would probably achieve this, but they may be too difficult for the average person to use without a lot of training. Can we use Jon’s idea of using the 3 relationships to form our own questions we use in place of Cole’s character questions, come up with our own “prayer focus” helps for our prayer time, and Study God’s Word – and use that for our model?
John C. // June 4, 2008 at 9:35 am |
I am in the same place as Chris and Jon. Don’t scrap the MMM concept altogether, just simplify it some for now. Like Chris said, I think some combination of Jon’s 3 Qs and N. Coles LTGs would be an excellent starting point. I’d like to suggest adding a little, too, but I’ll cover that next under measurement.
As for measurement, much of it may may well be, as Sue suggests, “observable behavior” in the form of greater contentment, increased involvement in the church, and a general outpouring of love and compassion at home, in church and in the community. Wouldn’t those be wonderful accomplishments!
You could also do simple things like track how many hours a week you spend with scripture, how much of your time you gave to the church or community in the past week, how many people you talked about your faith, how many people you invited to attend service, etc. This would give you a baseline from which you can keep “rasing the bar,” if necessary. (Ex.: “Small group members, on average, read the Bible and give their service 1 hour a week each. 10 or our 60 small group members reported talking about their faith with others this past week, and 7 of them invited people to join us in worship. We would like to see Scripture reading increase to 3 hours a week, church and community service to account for 4-6 hours of your time each week, and 50% of our small group members to talk about thier faith and invite others to church.”)
Please note this simply is an OVERSIMPLIFIED EXAMPLE. Please don’t focus on the specifics of what I measured in the example and dismiss the entire concept because you did not like theml. These can change. I’m just trying to show you that you can keep it simple AND still measure progress.
The other STRONG suggestion I would make would be to stop just short of mandating that small groups participate regularly in community service projects or other forms of community outreach. I am involved in two small groups and if I’m being honest, I think we have become too comfortable with ourselves. We are content getting together at our scheduled times and going through our normal rituals, but we shouldn’t be satisfied with that. We should be reaching out and discipling in some way, shape or form. It wouldn’t be the same for every group, but I think the groups should make a concerted effort to step out of their comfort zones and reach out.
When I have suggested this at meetings, I have received many excuses such as: “Hey, we’re an open group; anybody is willing to join us if they’d like,” or “I already serve in other ways,” or “I just don’t have the time to do any more than I’m already doing,” or “We all have different skills and aptitudes, and ministering to strangers isn’t one of mine,” etc. While these are all legitmate concerns, I also think they are rationalizations boarding on excuses for not reaching out. I am just as busy as the next person and I feel guilty that I don’t do more for my church and community. I WANT to do more, but I need the push from people who will hold me accountable, my church family.
I know that last paragraph will raise the ire of many and believe me I KNOW many people in my small groups do a lot of behind-the-scenes work already. I applaud them for that and am grateful for them. I would just ask that they don’t simply limit themselves to work IN the church and consider their service done. Outreach should be a high priority as well.
My suggest then, Brian, would be for your small group work to include being the clearinghouse for various outreach projects that could be assigned to small groups. While each small group would have the ability to pass on a certain project for whatever reason (not enough people, doesn’t fit into schedules, etc.), the expectation would be that each small group do some sort of project each calendar quarter. And there you have another form of measurement!! (“90% of CC small groups completed community outreach projects this quarter ranging from x to y.”)
Hope this all makes sense. Also hope I have not made to many of my church family members angry at me!
John C. // June 4, 2008 at 9:41 am |
I don’t know where those winking smiley faces came from. They were supposed to be close parens…
carol c // June 4, 2008 at 10:16 pm |
Hello to all,
I have been silently following your discussion and I have a profound appreciation for how well all of you have articulated a multitude of thoughts and opinions. I concur with those of you who have stated that the personal assessment of our lives in Christ should be conducted through the work of the Holy Spirit and not be subject to a legalist or behavioralist system.
Over the last three weeks, I have studied several scriptures including 1Thessalonians and 1Corinthians to try to get a scriptual “sceen play” of how Paul conducted discipleship in the early church. Paul concerned himself with bringing the message of Christ crucified, of salvation through the substitutional death of the perfect Son of God, and of the essential doctrines of Christianity including 1. The trinity, 2. the deity of Christ, 3. the power of the Holy Spirit, 4. the nature of Scripture, 5. the day of the Lord, 6. assurance of salvation, 7. conversion, 8. sanctification, 9. the resurrection, 10. the relation of faith to works, 11 the relation of love to service, and 12 the relation of patience to hope. These concepts are no more palatable to our culture today than they were 2000 years ago,. Yet scipture preserves that it is this witness to the truth that effectively brings men to salvation in Christ Jesus.
Paul placed the responsibility of being faithful steward of these mysteries of our faith directly on the shoulders of each believer and reminded the church at Corinth (see 1Cor 4:4-5) that God who knows our hearts will both judge and praise our stewardship. So whereas it might be cool or fun or relational to study Gods word and our progress in small groups ( I love this too), it’s still my responcibilty to search the scriptuers, to know them, to hide them in my heart so that I will not sin against Him, and to be ready to share the gospel with the same mighty power that was entrusted to the early followers. Rather than examine how I think I am doing as a disciple of Christ, I hope to go humbly and often before the throne of grace and ask; “Search me Oh God….and show me…”
Initially the discipleship discussion started out with the thought of developing a goal driven approach to discipleship. As far as I can tell from my study so far, the goal of our walk is the salvation of our souls (1Peter 1:9) The tools we are to use are the gifts of the Holy Spirit (Rom 12:6-8), the full armor of God (Eph 6 :10-17), prayer (Eph 6:18-20), and the other spiritual disciplines (various). The assessment scale we are told to use is the evidence of our fruit (Gal 5:22; Matt7:13-20 a narrow path to fruit;Phil 1:11; James3:17, Col 1:10). My study indicates that liberty in Christ Jesus has freed us from other man made assessment scales. We have the Holy Spirit in us the convict and to guide us.
When Paul wrote to the church at Thessilonica he mentored the young believers with “teaching” that was rich in doctrine and application and accurately described salvation in it’s full dimension” (from The Nelson Study Bible). If you want me to be a better descipler, then teach me doctrine and how to teach it to others, teach me how to illustrate the application of doctrine, and teach me about salvation and how to share it more fully. The word says, leave the elementary principles, you should be teaching! Paul in 1 Thessalonians teaches the basics of the faith, that are still basic today and describes at least 12 essential doctrines of Christianity. Paul’s regard for the church at Thessalonica was high. He called them a “model”. Their exemplary perseverance was a model to the Macedonians and it’s a model canonized for our sakes too. Isn’t it wonderful that we know exactly how Paul descipled them.
Prayer: Father God, Please give us wisdom and develop in us your plan for your church. Amen.
Thank You for the opportunity to participate in the discussion.
Carol
Ericka Howard // June 4, 2008 at 11:51 pm |
I wholeheartedly agree with Carol. As disciplers, we have to know doctrine, how to teach it, and how to teach its application. In other words, if what I’m learning as a disciple doesn’t translate into real, straight-forward application in my life, then discipleship hasn’t really taken place.
The best discipleship I have been involved with takes biblical principle and breaks it into practical applicability to real life situations I’m facing right now. In so doing, the Word becomes real.
An earlier model of discipleship is in Deut 6, where we are exhorted to teach our children and our children’s children to live by God’s commandments, but included in this is an exhortation to be certain these commandments are on our own hearts (first). Moses goes on to explain how we are to surround, even immerse, ourselves and our children with/in God’s word. It’s a rich chapter….a rich book, really.
I was not discipled as a child. I did not learn how to disciple my own children from my parents. I don’t believe many in the church (at large) today have benefited from parents who knew how to disciple their children. If we are intentional now about teaching this generation of parents how to disciple their children (and in turn their children’s children), what an amazing difference we will see in just a generation or two!!!!!
(I realize that some people in our church either aren’t parents, or their children are already grown. So “parents” are a subset of the bigger picture of church-wide discipleship as a whole. But if you include all the potential “future” parents in this, the subset grows substantially.)
The funny thing about learning to disciple my own children…I have not been able to escape growing in Christ-likeness myself. It’s the hottest, most intense, most character-building fishbowl I’ve ever been in.
Fathers need to understand their crucial role in leading and loving their wives and also in leading and molding their children’s hearts toward God. What are we doing to intentionally teach that role to the men and boys in our church today?
Mothers need to understand their crucial role in respecting their husbands and nurturing their children’s hearts toward God. What are we doing to intentionally teach this to the women and girls in our church today?
The parents having a better understanding of their God-given roles will provide a firm foundation for the whole family. Children who are given a firm foundation grow up to be adults who have a firm foundation, who then raise up their own children on a firm foundation, and so on through the generations.
I believe this is how God originally intended discipleship to happen, from parents to children, from generation to generation. (Whom did Adam & Eve disciple? Was the original family perhaps the first “small group”?) As a church body, what can we do to more intentionally move the families in our church towards this original model?
And this is not just about reproducing disciples within our own family (forgive the pun…). Parents who understand their God-given roles have a family that honors God. What I mean by that is that there are healthy & loving relationships between spouses, between parents & children, and between siblings. Then–because of these healthy relationships–this family has the increased ability to reach out to neighbors. This family is an example, a light, to the community at large. The people they meet want to know, “what’s different about that family?” This provides even more opportunities for outreach. This “model” is win-win; it’s not necessarily culturally accepted, nor is it likely politically correct; it requires much sacrifice, and it is so worth it.
I continue to pray for wisdom, strength, and clarity for our whole leadership team, and for you in particular, Brian, as you lead us toward a more defined understanding of discipleship. I am blessed to be included in this discussion and especially in this body of believers.
Ericka
Matt Erickson // June 11, 2008 at 10:09 am |
Brian,
I was pleased to find that the conversation had continued past your assessments of the different discipleship models.
As I skimmed through a lot of the great discussion happening on this post, I wanted to make at least some brief response to one major theme that is at play in the discussion about discipleship.
I DO think that we need to be committed to overall simplicity in our approach to discipleship, but not be fooled by the truth that in all apparent simplicity that really works there is a tremendous amount of complexity.
I am tired of the discussions about “organic” church that overemphasizes simplicity. Not that Neil Cole does this, but some advocates of such moves are actually simplistic. Any fool should recognize that there is a tremendous complexity within all organisms (i.e., organic movement or material). For there to be true biological development and growth, internal systems are highly developed for continued and effective growth. Photosynthesis is apparently simple (light + water = growth) while being so complicated that few of us realize the minute pieces of that process.
I think that the same should be true of discipleship and spiritual formation in the church. We need to take the necessary hard work as leaders and facilitators of the process or processes of discipleship and spiritual formation to develop complex systems of development and growth that are apparently simple.
Thus the joy we feel when we enter a church and can fairly easily and with little work navigate and enter the process of spiritual formation. If that process is truly organic and developmentally healthy, it will necessarily be complicated but should not appear to be to the superficial glance.
brian hofmeister // June 11, 2008 at 3:28 pm |
Matthew,
You’ve said well what I’m trying to get at. “Love God and love people” is the simple life we’re called to, but that statement is also loaded with detail (for example, see the 12 doctrines Carol pointed out).